Testemunho de Kris Kallman
9 Call Kris Kallman, Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: Come forward to the witness
11 stand, please. When you get to the witness stand,
12 remain standing.
13 Face the clerk and raise your right hand.
14
15 KRIS KALLMAN
16 Having been sworn, testified as follows:
17
18 THE WITNESS: Yes.
19 THE CLERK: Please be seated. State and
20 spell your name for the record.
21 THE WITNESS: My name is Kris, K-r-i-s,
22 Kallman, K-a-l-l-m-a-n.
23 THE CLERK: Thank you.
24
25 DIRECT EXAMINATION
26 BY MR. SNEDDON:
27 Q. Good morning, Mr. Kallman.
28 A. Good morning, Mr. Sneddon. 4949
1 Q. You’re an attorney?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Licensed to practice in the State of
4 California?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. And what is your brief educational
7 background to prepare you for the practice of law in
8 the State of California?
9 A. Well, I graduated from Santa Barbara High
10 School. Went to Santa Barbara City College.
11 Graduated from Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. Went to
12 Pepperdine University Law School.
13 Q. Do you have a certain area of law that you
14 specialize in?
15 A. Yes. I am a civil trial lawyer, and for the
16 most part, I represent people that get injured due
17 to the fault of another person or company.
18 Q. How long have you been practicing law in the
19 State of California?
20 A. 29 years.
21 Q. And how long have you lived in Santa Barbara
22 County?
23 A. My whole life, except when I was away at
24 college.
25 Q. And where do you live in Santa Barbara
26 County?
27 A. I live in Santa Barbara, on the mesa, in the
28 city. 4950
1 Q. Now, during the time that you’ve practiced
2 law in Santa Barbara County, have you had associates
3 that have practiced with you in your firm?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Are you a sole practitioner?
6 A. Essentially. Although I currently have two
7 lawyers that office with me and they act as “of
8 counsel.” They’re not employees, but they help me
9 out on cases.
10 Q. Are you familiar with an attorney by the
11 name of Terry Cannon?
12 A. I sure am.
13 Q. And how long have you known Mr. Cannon?
14 A. Oh, I’ve known Mr. Cannon for at least 20
15 years.
16 Q. And at some point in time prior to today,
17 was Mr. Cannon one of the people who was associated
18 with you in the practice of -- your civil practice?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And during what period of time was that; do
21 you recall?
22 A. Well, the relevant period here would have
23 been in the early to mid ‘90s.
24 Q. And at that time Mr. Cannon was practicing
25 with you?
26 A. He was associating with me on certain cases.
27 Q. And do you recall where Mr. Cannon was
28 residing at that particular point in time? 4951
1 A. I believe he was living in Santa Barbara.
2 Q. Now, at some later time, did Mr. Cannon
3 leave your association and take up the practice of
4 law somewhere else?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. To your knowledge, where was that?
7 A. In Oregon.
8 Q. And then after that, did Mr. Cannon come
9 back?
10 A. He came back to San Luis Obispo County, and
11 then moved to San Diego County.
12 Q. And at this particular point in time, do you
13 know where Mr. Cannon is?
14 A. Not exactly this moment. But I happen to
15 know that he bought a condominium here in Orcutt.
16 Q. And is he, once again, associated with you
17 in the practice of law?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Now, did you have occasion to represent
20 Jason Francia in some litigation?
21 A. He and his mother, yes.
22 Q. And can you tell us, did you ever prepare a
23 lawsuit on behalf of Jason Francia?
24 A. We prepared a Complaint, which is a document
25 that’s the beginning of a lawsuit, yes.
26 Q. And when you say “we,” who’s “we”?
27 A. Mr. Cannon and myself.
28 Q. So Mr. Cannon was working with you on that 4952
1 particular case?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. And after the preparation of that
4 document -- well, with regard to that document, what
5 were the allegations set forth in the proposed
6 Complaint to be filed?
7 A. Well, it’s been --
8 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Hearsay;
9 relevance.
10 THE COURT: Sustained.
11 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Who was the individual that
12 the Complaint was directed towards?
13 A. Mr. Jackson.
14 Q. At some point in time, did you have contact
15 with individuals who were representing Mr. Jackson
16 over the proposed filing of the criminal -- of the
17 civil complaint?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And who did you make contact with?
20 A. Initially our contacts were with Johnnie
21 Cochran and his associate, Carl Douglas.
22 Q. Do you recall approximately when it was when
23 you first made contact with Mr. -- or when contact
24 was made between you and Mr. Cochran and Mr.
25 Douglas?
26 A. It was either late ‘94 or early ‘95.
27 Q. Did you, after your conversations with those
28 individuals, file the civil lawsuit? 4953
1 A. No.
2 Q. At some point in time later, were you then
3 dealing with other lawyers with regard to the
4 proposed filing of that civil lawsuit?
5 A. Yes. At some point, Mr. Jackson’s
6 representation was assumed by a lawyer named Zia
7 Modabber, and a lawyer named Howard Weitzman.
8 Q. And do you recall approximately when it was
9 that you then began contact with those particular
10 individuals?
11 A. I believe it was in mid 1995.
12 Q. And the purpose of those contacts?
13 A. Well, the --
14 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Vague;
15 foundation.
16 THE COURT: Overruled.
17 You may answer.
18 THE WITNESS: The purpose of the contacts
19 was that they knew that we had a Complaint that we
20 were about to file in Santa Barbara County Superior
21 Court, and they didn’t want us to do that.
22 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Hearsay;
23 foundation.
24 THE COURT: The answer is stricken.
25 Sustained.
26 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: As a result of the
27 conversations between these individuals, did you
28 pursue your lawsuit? 4954
1 A. Well, we never filed the lawsuit.
2 Q. Did you reach an agreement, a settlement
3 agreement?
4 A. Yes, we did.
5 Q. Did you reach a settlement agreement in
6 which Jason Francia received monetary compensation
7 from Mr. Jackson?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Did you receive -- did you reach an
10 agreement in which Blanca Francia received monetary
11 compensation from Mr. Jackson?
12 A. Yes, we did.
13 Q. During the time that you were
14 representing -- during the time that you had
15 prepared a Complaint ready to be filed and you were
16 in contact with attorneys representing Mr. Jackson,
17 can you give the ladies and gentlemen of the jury an
18 idea of how old Jason Francia was at that particular
19 point in time?
20 A. Well, he was about 14 years old. He’s 24
21 now, as I understand it, and we’re talking about
22 things that happened just about exactly ten years
23 ago.
24 Q. And in your position as a civil litigator,
25 at the time that an individual is of minority, at
26 the age of 14, how do you deal with representing a
27 person like that?
28 A. Well, a child -- 4955
1 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Vague;
2 foundation; relevance.
3 THE COURT: Overruled.
4 You may complete your answer.
5 THE WITNESS: A child, under California law,
6 under the age of 18, is not permitted to enter into
7 a contract. I suppose he or she could, but it
8 wouldn’t be enforceable. So the only way a child
9 can act legally is through a guardian ad litem. And
10 it’s normally the parent and normally the mother.
11 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Was that the case in this
12 particular instance?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Now, during the course of the time that you
15 were involved in obtaining a settlement from Mr.
16 Jackson on behalf of the Francias, did you deal
17 personally with Jason at any time?
18 A. Yeah. Sure.
19 Q. In what respect?
20 A. Well, I knew who he was, I met with him. I
21 met with he and his mom. He was a teenaged boy, and
22 a nice young man.
23 Q. Now, at some point in time was Jason
24 required to sign some kind of documents in
25 conjunction with the settlement?
26 A. Yes. When he turned 18, part of the
27 condition was that he sign a confidentiality
28 agreement. 4956
1 Q. Now, with regard to the confidentiality --
2 and to your knowledge, did he sign that?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And with regard to the confidentiality
5 agreement, did it have a provision that required
6 notice to Mr. Jackson in the event that Jason
7 Francia talked to anybody?
8 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Leading; move to
9 strike.
10 THE COURT: Overruled.
11 You may answer.
12 THE WITNESS: I believe so, yes.
13 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: And what was the
14 requirement notice in the confidentiality agreement
15 with regard to notice to the defense?
16 A. I believe it’s five days.
17 Q. And were you at some point contacted by Mr.
18 Zonen of our department with regard to interviewing
19 your -- Jason Francia?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And in that particular case, did you
22 indicate to Mr. Zonen that you would have to do
23 something before you could agree with that?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And what was that?
26 A. Well, I’d have to notify somebody on Mr.
27 Jackson’s legal staff that they wanted to talk to
28 him. 4957
1 Q. And did you do that?
2 A. Yeah. Yes. Excuse me.
3 Q. And did you then grant permission for Mr.
4 Zonen to have a conversation with your -- with Jason
5 Francia?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Now, were you present during the
8 conversations between Jason Francia and Mr. Zonen?
9 A. I don’t think so. I think I was there, and
10 then I think I had to go to another court or
11 something like that. I don’t remember being an
12 integral part of any of those -- if there was more
13 than one, I don’t even know.
14 Q. And I’m talking about the conversations that
15 occurred after you gave notice to the defense in
16 this case, or gave notice to Mr. Jackson. To your
17 knowledge, was Mr. Cannon present?
18 A. I believe so. At least for part of it.
19 Again, I’m not certain.
20 Q. Do you remember when it was that you
21 finally -- the year that you finally reached a
22 settlement agreement with Mr. Jackson?
23 A. Yes. It’s been a long time. But it was a
24 big deal. And I do remember --
25 MR. MESEREAU: Objection. Nonresponsive;
26 move to strike.
27 THE COURT: The answer is stricken.
28 Nonresponsive. 4958
1 Q. BY MR. SNEDDON: Just --
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And what year was that, approximately?
4 A. It was either ‘95 or ‘96, I believe.
5 THE COURT: Counsel, we’ll take our break.
6 (Recess taken.)
1 THE COURT: Counsel?
2 MR. SNEDDON: Your Honor, I’ve just about
3 completed my examination. But I would request if we
4 could approach the bench for just one second. I
5 don’t want to run afoul of the Court.
6 THE COURT: All right.
7 (Discussion held off the record at sidebar.)
8 THE COURT: (To the jury) All right. Knock
9 it off.
10 (Laughter.)
11 THE COURT: Okay. Counsel, you may proceed.
12 MR. SNEDDON: All right.
13 Q. Mr. Kallman, I think I just have a couple
14 questions left.
15 I think where we were headed before the
16 break was you told us the approximate year in which
17 the case actually reached a settlement.
18 And what I wanted to know was, after the
19 settlement of the case, have you kept in contact
20 with Jason over the years?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And to your knowledge, has Mr. Cannon kept
23 in contact with Jason over the years?
24 A. I believe so.
25 Q. Now, with regard to the lawsuit that was
26 contemplated against Mr. Jackson at the time, the
27 basis of the -- of the nature of the representation
28 of Jason Francia involved inappropriate sexual 4965
1 conduct against Jason by the defendant, Mr. Jackson?
2 A. Yes.
3 MR. SNEDDON: Nothing further, Your Honor.
4 THE COURT: Cross-examine?
5 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, please. Your Honor.
6
7 CROSS-EXAMINATION
8 BY MR. MESEREAU:
9 Q. Good morning, Mr. Kallman.
10 A. Good morning.
11 Q. My name is Thomas Mesereau and I speak for
12 Mr. Jackson.
13 A. Pleasure to meet you.
14 Q. I want to ask you some questions about the
15 settlement agreement you referred to in response to
16 the prosecutor’s questions, okay?
17 First of all, you had separate settlement
18 agreements for the mother, Blanca Francia, and the
19 son, Jason Francia, correct?
20 A. I believe so. I can tell you, I have not
21 reviewed this material and it’s been ten years, but
22 I believe that was the case. Some of this I’m going
23 to have to take your word for it.
24 Q. Well, I can show you a copy if you need it.
25 A. I don’t disbelieve that.
26 Q. Okay. The settlement agreement with Blanca
27 Francia was entered into approximately April 1st,
28 1996, right? 4966
1 A. I don’t know.
2 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show
3 you a copy of the agreement?
4 A. Sure.
5 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?
6 THE COURT: Yes.
7 THE WITNESS: That’s what it says.
8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: The settlement agreement
9 with Jason Francia was entered into approximately
10 June 1st, 1998, right?
11 A. Don’t know.
12 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I just
13 show you a copy of it?
14 A. Sure.
15 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?
16 THE COURT: Yes.
17 THE WITNESS: That’s what it says.
18 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Now, that would
19 suggest, wouldn’t it, that the mother had agreed to
20 get money for herself before there was any agreement
21 for Jason to get money in a settlement, right?
22 A. No, it was all part of one global
23 settlement.
24 Q. Then why would there be a two-year
25 difference between the execution of those settlement
26 agreements?
27 A. Remember when I told the jury that a minor
28 can’t enter into a contract? 4967
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